John Lydon performing with Public Image Ltd (PiL) on the third night of their seven date reunion tour at the O2 Academy, Glasgow, Scotland, UK 18th December 2009
Photo by Duncan Bryceland
For the first time in eight years, John Lydon brings Public Image Ltd to the United States for a full tour, a run set to kick off Thursday, September 3 in Pioneertown, California, moving across America into early October.
PiL’s “This Is Not…The Last PiL Tour” is an ambitious outing, with dates already scheduled for Australia in January 2027 and Japan in February ahead of a North American return early next year.
Recent times have found Lydon facing loss, a period of several years which saw him care for his ailing wife Nora, who passed away in early 2023 following a bout with Alzheimer’s. Later that year, Lydon would face the untimely death of longtime manager and friend John “Rambo” Stevens.
Nevertheless, he’s remained productive, recently releasing the new
Nevertheless, he’s remained productive, recently releasing the new PiL album Alive (a live set now availablee group’s 2025 dates) ahead of a new studio album set for 2027
“We’re gonna call the album AI, the new studio album. That’s short for ‘actual intelligence,’” said Lydon with a devious smile, lighting a cigarette during a recent video call. “They’re particularly ruining reggae at the moment with it. It’s so lifeless and soulless and pointless and note correct and everything falls into place ideologically according to a computer perfectly suited for us human beings. And I find all of it relentlessly tiring. Just monotonous. So, enough of that!” he said. “Are we waltzing into robotic behavior? I don’t see why we should fit the machine. I want the machine to fit us! And to work for us. Not the other way around,” Lydon explained. “Actual intelligence is the only way out of it.”
The former Sex Pistol known as Johnny Rotten remains every bit the provocateur. Interestingly enough, this current tour will pit Lydon’s PiL opposite the Sex Pistols (now fronted by English singer Frank Carter) when both acts arrive in Chicago to perform during Riot Fest September 18 – 20.
I spoke with the affable, and always quotable,
I spoke with the affable, and always quotable, John Lydon about turning 70, making mistakes, the Riot Fest booking, the new PiL live record, the forthcoming studio album, the importance of improvisation, American politics and much more. A transcript of our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity, follows below.
Jim Ryan: What makes a great live album?
John Lydon: Just by the sheer hard work and endurance process that all of us had to go through in order to reform!
It was very difficult for me to recover from my wife’s death and then very shortly followed by “Rambo,” my best friend and manager. And I didn’t think I had the capacity to do that. But I did. And I came through it without turning into a drug addict or a crazed, miserable self-pitying moron. So, it’s quite an achievement! So, I felt very much alive when we went out [last year].
We formed this tour under the guise
And we formed this tour under the guise that we were going to be just the hardest rock band the world had ever known. And we’ve achieved that. And we were very proud when we heard the tapes. Because we record ourselves live and just thought, “Well, let’s knock a few of them out then in the meantime.” Because it’s only a precursor to a new album that’s about to follow.
Most of the new album is completed. It was something like 20 songs. Which we flew off to Portugal to record. And we were amazed at our workload and how well we coped. And how varied and nuanced the new work is. We’re going to go back into the studio to finish it off.
Constantly at work are we.
Ryan: Have those personal experiences manifested themselves in the writing of this batch of new music?
Lydon: Well, it hasn’t wallowed into self-pity
Lydon: Well, it hasn’t wallowed into self-pity. There’s no dirgey songs like The Cure would be proud of. There’s none of that kind of emoting away. It’s a joyous relief that she’s gone onto happier places, for me, personally. But I’m not the only one who’s faced death. The drummer’s mother died the week before we went out on tour. Everybody’s got illnesses in families. There’s quite a lot to cope with.
And all of this at the glorious age of 70! Well, I never! Well, yes, I did! I did it. I made it! And I’ve done everything wrong in my life to make sure I couldn’t! And yet here I am: more vibrant and full of energy than I’ve ever been!
Ryan: Any favorite live albums of yours over all these years and decades?
Lydon: Of who?
Ryan: That’s up to you, sir. Could be your own. Could be someone else’s.
Lydon: No! I generally don’t like live albums
Lydon: No! I generally don’t like live albums. They always sound too tinny and up there in the nether regions of the console. But, with this one, I think we managed to capture a really good bass sound. Scotty Firth, our bass player, is damn good, man. And there’s a lot of upright bass. And you can tell. It fills in the sound that most multi-purpose tracked live recordings just can’t touch. We just take it straight off the desk, you know?
Ryan: Well, that was my next question. Everyone likes to take these things into the studio and tinker with them to the point that they’re barely a live album anymore. So, how raw is this?
Lydon: Oh, you know, you have to. You have to! Believe me, that’s absolutely essential! Or else you’ll get, “Shut up, you fart!” (Laughing)
Ryan: Sure. But how about in terms
Ryan: Sure. But how about in terms of the music? Is this actually a live album? How much have you fixed?
Lydon: Oh, no. Very minimal. Very minimal. It’s not a completely live album – because different tracks are recorded on different nights. But it’s very much alive. No pun intended. Yes, of course. I am alive!
Ryan: Well, by the time Alive had been recorded, you guys had toured pretty extensively with Mark Roberts in place of Bruce Smith. Do you come at the songs live any differently now with a new drummer? Does that bring a different energy?
Lydon: What we do live is what we
Lydon: What we do live is what we enjoy. What’s the most bang bang fun we can have? And there you go. That’s the set. Hell, we could do a complete electronic evening. Or we could be there with tambourines and banjos. Or we could go out this way with proper live drumming.
In the past, our drummer, we used to rely a lot on technology. And we’ve decided to just push that aside. Let’s just go live drumming, bang all the way – rather than computerized little noises. It’s easy to fall into the electronic trap – because it gives you more tonal qualities. But less emphasis. It’s very hard for a singer to keep in time with anything digital.
Ryan: I’ve kind of heard you speak about the importance of improvisation and leaving some room for that in the set. Especially In this era where everything has become so contrived, including live concerts, how important is it to maintain that spirit in your live set?
Lydon: Well, because we’re human – and we’ve
Lydon: Well, because we’re human – and we’ve all realized this about ourselves years ago – we will all make mistakes. And as soon as anybody does, everybody is there to go with them rather than against them. That’s how it works. And that takes us off into really interesting avenues to explore. That mistake then becomes, “Oh, wow! This is a whole new verse!” And that’s quite great.
Making it up on the spot is a very challenging and dangerous thing to do. But, my god, I live on a razor’s edge don’t I? So, you know, meet my friends! They’re equally psychopathic.
Ryan: I’m in Chicago where you’re booked to perform opposite the Sex Pistols at Riot Fest soon. Has that happened before? How do you approach a weekend like that?
Lydon: Well, it’s fantastic isn’t
Lydon: Well, it’s fantastic isn’t it? I’m going to be serenaded by a karaoke band the night before I properly play! Who could ask for anything more?! There’s no other way of looking at it.
The promoter was very fair. He said there was a possibility of them being on the bill. I’m not going to shove anybody off work. Sorry. Whatever our arguments between ourselves, they shouldn’t get in the way of that, you know? You can watch the half-hearted imitation of me. And, then, when you’ve recovered from that, you get the real deal! (Laughing)
God bless them. Do they know what they’ve walked into? Said the spider to the fly. Should be a riot.
Ryan: I was watching The Public Image
Ryan: I was watching The Public Image is Rotten documentary last night. And there are these stories about you kind of self-financing everything for PiL early on. And I know, to some extent, that’s still the case. But, in doing so, I would imagine it’s allowed you to have a little more creative control, or control in general, without relinquishing any of that to, say, a record label. How important has that been?
Lydon: I’ve never wanted complete dominance. But I like people to come to me in an advisory capacity occasionally. (Laughing)
But I’ve always liked the feeling of being in a band and working with a group of people. I’ve done a solo project. I didn’t enjoy it anywhere near as much. It’s that give and take and that share – and that bending of the rules! You get great satisfaction out of that.
Yeah. We view ourselves kind of like
So, yeah. We view ourselves kind of like a Viking raiding party. We’ve come to steal your instruments! And torture you with new ones!
Ryan: There’s this great scene right at the beginning of that documentary where somebody says to you, “You’re quite famous aren’t you? How did that happen?” And you replied, “Honesty.” You singled out that word. It’s a concept that seems to be in short supply these days. But I know you’ve long considered it a hallmark. How important is it?
Lydon: I think it always has been. It always has been in the music industry. The closest opening to an honest song or remark I think was John Lennon. “Working Class Hero.” The lyrics to that song. I’m a working class person. It’s like, at last! Someone in that damn industry noticed we’re the ones buying your stuff! You know? Care about us too!
Ryan: I’ve heard you say that you hoped
Ryan: I’ve heard you say that you hoped one of the impacts of the Sex Pistols was the demolition of all categories. “Divided we fall,” as you put it. To me, that’s the power of live music. You get people together in a room who may otherwise want to kill each other and yet they’re there together with a shared purpose. Is that an important role for live music to play today?
Lydon: Well, yes. Because I love theater. And, so, watching them kill each other, I think, would be even more entertaining! (Laughing) But, no. I don’t want categories. Categories have never worked for me.
When I was very young, I’d buy records because I liked the bloody album cover. Right? Simplistic things like that. And then I’d get a real shock with the content. But that was opening my mind up to stuff that I might possibly never have considered. So, by any means, I used to take every job I could just to earn the money to buy records. Alright? So, over the years I’ve got a pretty huge collection out there.
Then again, I’ve also got my mom
But, then again, I’ve also got my mom and dad’s inspiration. They were avid music lovers when I was very young. My dad was a rocker. So, there’d be lots of like sweet Gene Vincent. That’s my dad’s hero. There’d be Irish, Greek and all manner of folk music in there. And, of course, the beautifulness of the top 30 in Britain in those days was that the variety was fantastic. Went onto invade America and change the shape of music over there – even though they were ripping off the Yanks in the first place! (Laughing) Somehow, them getting it all wrong worked out right in the end.
But all music really goes back to a bunch of folks sitting around an open campfire and trying to communicate. And that’s what music is: imitating the world and the noises around you and trying to make some kind of coherent, logical pattern out of it.
That’s why, for me, the human voice is the very first instrument. Don’t make that try to fit with a saxophone, make it the other way around.
Ryan: So, I gotta ask you this then
Ryan: So, I gotta ask you this then. When we talk about the premium you place upon honesty, and the idea that division is bad, how can you take those two ideas and set them against support for Donald Trump, who I would argue uses a lack of honesty to drive division?
Lydon: Oh, go f-k yourself will you?! I’m not interested in what you have to say about him. He’s the Sex Pistols of politics!
Ryan: Great. That’s why I’m asking you.
Lydon: No! F-k off! I’m here to talk about music. Politics is irrelevant! Always has been. I despise all politicians. Don’t make my life about opinions on them twats, alright? They’re all egomaniacs. And not one of them would do the world good. Stop it! Given a choice to vote between him and an Alzheimer’s victim, why would you vote for the Alzheimer’s victim?! Even Nora, poor dear, while she was dying, laughed at Joe Biden! “That man is not well!” And neither was she! But she knew what she was talking about!
Ryan: Please. This guy is falling asleep every
Ryan: Please. This guy is falling asleep every time I turn on the TV. Come on.
Lydon: You can’t trust any of them! The system itself is corrupt and broken. I call it the sh-tsem.
Ryan: On that part we can agree. Well, we’ve spoken about how hard it is to get eyeballs on new music. But here you are at 70 and clearly it still matters. What is it at this stage of the game that makes you want to get out there and keep doing it?
Lydon: I don’t know who wrote the law
Lydon: I don’t know who wrote the law that we should retire at a certain age but, whomever they were, they certainly didn’t have me in mind. Or maybe they did and it was a very good way of getting rid of me! (Laughing)
If you’ve still got the chops, go chopping! It’s as simple as that. Until you’ve run out of ideas and you’ve run out of effort and energy. There’s no other reason, really, to stop. Unless, of course, you’re pushing out stuff that sounds exactly like the previous. If you’re repeating yourself and it’s just a treadmill. There’s a few bands out there that do that. But them I’ll have no time for.
Variety is the spice of life. And the longer I live, the more spice I’m running!
Source: www.forbes.com
